Puneet's comment: Re: Salary for legislators. (fwd)

[Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@almaak.usc.edu>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Puneet Singh <psingh@scdt.intel.com>
To: sabhlok@almaak.usc.edu
Subject: Re: Salary for legislators.

Sanjeev,

I've been following the mails closely and have been trying to see if we can
summarize an agreement on the issues so that I could capture it into an item
for the manifesto. Like you said, it will be difficult for any one of us to play
the role of an arbitrator and decide on when a topic is closed or what the
final agreement is. Personally I think you've put me in a very tight position
by asking me to do the job (I guess I'm guilty of raising it) since it involves
gathering gists from quoted facts and opinions. Its bound to leave some of
us not fully satisfied with the final verdict.

Anyways, I was thinking of allowing a free flow of discussions and let it
automatically settle down (when people stop voicing), then go back at the
archived messages and try to capture our learnings. Once such a summary is
made it can be resurfaced for opinions and modifications. I guess it has to
be an iterative process to allow a democratic settlement.

I am assuming discussions on different topics will be binned. I will
be happy to contribute towards capturing the agreements and would ask for
more people to help out.

On the topic of compensation, which is what is being discussed below, be that
for MPs, MLAs etc, I'm in full agreement that a position of responsibility
should be rewarded by its level of impact to the society. Hence many of these
positions require to be restructured to attract the best in the fields. 
However, though compensation (reward) is the true way to balance offsets in
handling the current situation, it is a very strong statement to say
that greed is what drives us all. In many ways it may be true, but in many its
not. Its a concern I have about some of the other non socialistic opinions
I've heard earlier on the discussion group too. Infact all of us currently on
this mailing list are taking time off to do something where we could have made
some money (atleast potentially!). You can also see its effects in a capitalist
market like here when a company does many things that dont nessarily have 100%
weight attached to profits/share price (HP is a very good example where the
company truely believes in employee welfare). It is ranked as one of the best
companies to work for. Obviously, what the company is doing is maximizing "welfare"
and not just profits for itself. In a much similar way, a model/scenario needs to
be created where responsible and effective positions are well rewarded (and money
is just one of the rewards). Lets not attract just money hungry folks.

To counter most of the evils today in India or anywhere for that matter, what 
is needed is an agreement on a set of guidelines that we wish to govern and live
by (hence a constitution). Then one needs to identify methods of providing solutions.
Next comes the question of methods of implementation (which in my opinion is a much 
more difficult task than 1,2). To this group I would suggest we quickly go
through 1 and attempt the second step. For its no good if we know what the
problem is but cant suggest a workable, cost effective, moral, welfare maximizing
solution. The discusions so far seem to overlap 1,2 since we seem to be suggesting
solutions too. It has been very healthy and we need to get into the nitty gritty
of it so that we can go and present our case as a complete solution. In the end,
I take it we are doing this to allow its usage by some body/organization. A
book by Sanjeev would help raise awareness and hopefully bring more agreement
amongst Indians. But it would not suffice for us to state opinions, we need
to substantiate it with reasearch, facts, logical reasonings in a precise and
comprehensive manner (something Varsha Bhosle often forgets!). Pointing out what
is wrong is a necessary but not sufficient step towards a system cleansing.

In many ways I'm reminded of a the simplest feedback system model that any control
theory book talks about, for governance. It needs a self correcting feedback loop
that processes previous results and applies correcting feedback to an incoming
signal. Sanjeev, you challenged this group to come up with a solution/equation that
can work all the time for the min wage problem. The fact is the solution is not
an equation independant of time and input signals. In many ways free market works
similar to a closed loop feedback controller. The stability of such a system depends
on what goes into the two boxes (at the risk of losing some readers I'll avoid
further description). Our system is multi dimensional (we dont even know the number of
variables)... I'm sure econimics theory would have captured all this somewhere.
Bottom line is, governance to me means setting up of such a system where market
forces plays an important role too. The challange is really in setting up this
controller.

I'll stop, before I remain the only one to reach till this line!

Puneet

> I think this is a point that all of us can readily support. The question
> of how funds will come in for this is not critical; the purpose of it is.
> 
> An MLA/ MP in power today makes much more than this amount: definitely in
> the range of many lakhs of rupees, through patronage, transfers and
> postings of officials, bribe collection, etc. The official salary is so
> low that nobody in his right sense would enter politics. Therefore a
> majority of those who enter are either already rich or are quite
> shameless in creaming off whatever they can, from their jobs.
> 
> Ensuring that an MLA makes an official Rs. 5 lakhs per year and an MP
> about Rs. 8 lakhs or so, will have two effects (both not welcomed by
> existing political groups, unfortunately):
> 
> a) Many well-educated, honest, middle-class folk will try to enter
> politics. Many of these people can easily make Rs. 3-5 lakhs at today's
> rates in the private sector. Therefore the incentive will be just right
> for them to take the risk of forsaking an existing "secure" career in
> favor of entering an area where if they do moderately well, at least they
> will be able to feed their family and send their child to a good school
> (fundamental priorities of a middle-class person). We need to pluck out
> our middle class intellengtsia from their secure, tiny, jobs, and induce
> them to enter politics, the main area of public service, properly defined.
> 
> b) Among those who are already in this "career" of politics, there will be
> at least some who will cut down (if not eliminate) their bad "habits" of
> squeezing out money from every "favor" they grant. If an average MLA/MP is
> assured the life that is enjoyed by an average private medical
> practitioner, then there is hope that he/she will cut down on corruption.
> 
> I think Puneet or someone (I can help, too) can start compiling those
> views that are generally supported and send them over to me in a mail. I
> will place these on a web page which can be entitled "An Ideal Manifesto
> in Process" and "An Ideal Agenda in Process." 
> 
> Views that are still controversial (i.e., with differences amongst us) can
> be sorted out at length, in due course, but we should have the sense of
> accomplishment of having agreed to some points, as time passes by, by
> watching our "list of agreements" growing.
> 
> How does that sound? 
> 
> Sanjeev
> ***************************************************************************
> 
> On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Suresh Anand wrote:
> 
> > I fully support the following proposal from Utkarsh. I wud say you need a
> > mimimum of Rs. 40-50,000 pm plus free decent housing and other usual civil
> > service benefits to attract the right kind.
> > 
> > suresh
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > HI EveryOne:
> > 
> > Just a thought. As a group we should ask our legislators and lawmakers to
> > be paid
> > well to do a good job. In my understanding, it will bring educated and able
> > individuals
> > to give a second look for a career in legislative branch of government. Any
> > body
> > has any idea how much an MLA and MP makes? I have read some numbers.  But
> > would like
> > to hear a factual number. Can anyone propose a salary for such important
> > positions
> > to reform India's policy making?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Utkarsh Kansal  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>