RE: Corruption: Alternative Hypotheses

[Kush Khatri <free_voice@yahoo.com>]

Sanjeev, I did not quite understand this alternative hypothesis.   Let
me reiterate:  Corruption has nothing to do with genes or political
ideology.  Corruption is a direct result of the system--a system which
has no public accountablity, has no transperancy and provides ample
opportunity to everyone in the system to steal public's money without
any noticeable consequences.  Neither genes nor ideology is responsible.
I do not know how many on the list are familiar with the corruption
which was so prevalent at the local level here in United States up
until the second world war (in some cities like Chicago even later) 
that it matched that of India, Mexico and Nigeria (the three top
corrupt countries today!).  As in India, bribery was as common and
local chiefs (Mayors, Sherifs, even the attorney generals and of
course the police) had their "cut" set in all deals--it was usually
called the "graft."  Two things happened that ended this sorry state
of affairs. One was a powerful, grassroots level reform movement and
the introduction of technology, professionalism and modern accounting
systems.  Yes, another thing that helped were strong associations of
professioinals (government accountants and managers who were tired of
this corruption of culture).
Therefore, corruption is not that difficult to eliminate as it seems. 
What, however, is difficult is how do you change the attitudes of
those who are inside the system and those who are outside?  What
frightens me vis-a-vis India is not the massive problem of corruption
(because I am confident that can end with the right system and
institutions) but what frightens me is the lackadaisical attitude of
the people toward corruption.  Even the educated think, it exists
everywhere and in ALL countries.  Yet if you ask any immigrants, for
example, to give specific examples of corruption from their lives here
in the United States or Canada, examples are terribly lacking.  By
eliminatioin of corruption is not meant, that there will ever come a
time when a few people will not try stealing money and resources.  But
there does come a stage when most people do not do that kind of a
stuff because it becomes too risky (not because they have turned
saints or have become genetically superior).  That is what I mean by
the SYSTEM.
Kush Khatri




---Sanjeev Sabhlok  wrote:
>
> Charu:
> 
> > My views lean towards Kush's: Power corrupts, regardless of the
form of
> > government. 
> 
> What! Am I not saying precisely that, all along? That people are
> universally greedy (want more than less), opportunitistic (will misuse
> power when given the opportunity, etc.) ... 
> 
> Therefore I am afraid of Socialism; not because of its "noble
ideals" but
> because of the higher scope it gives to misuse power. All forms of
govt. 
> lead to misuse of power. But democracy is the best. Else we might
advocate
> dictatorship, if you like. There are huge differences in the outcomes
> for the people between different forms of government.
> 
> Similarly, all forms of economic systems lead to corruption. But
> capitalism (suitably moderated: as I have been stating all along),
leads
> to two clear reasons for reduction in corruption: 
> 
> a) the people become rich, therefore the "need-based" corruption, as
> someone mentioned earlier, is reduced. Hence you find - in all
capitalist
> societies, that low level corruption such as from DDA clerks, is
reduced
> or virtually eliminated. 
> 
> b) the goverment does not capture the people's capital through
things like
> nationalization and does not interefere much in other people's
business.
> That drastically reduces the opportunity for corruption.
> 
> Corruption can never be eliminated, but by getting rid of socialism,
we
> will minimize it. By the way, there is a huge empirical literature
which
> clearly shows the strong relationship between higher wages and lower
> corruption. In socialistic societies, higher wages are considered a
sin: 
> there is no hope of reducing corruption in such societies. The USSR
was
> the most corrupt society in the world before it broke up, according
to my
> father, who had travelled virtually all over the world, as Addl.
Secy in
> the defence ministry. 
> 
> We cannot mix up lobbying by various groups, by official use of funds
> (these are publicly declared funds), as in the USA, with the
underhand and
> surrpetitious misuse of power as in India. 
> 
> I don't quite follow. Most of the people on this list are advocating
> privatization, increasing wages of lawmakers and others, and yet
find it
> relevant to bring in the cases of Cuba and China - two major failed
> experiments of the socialistic world (these are dictatorships,
anyway, and
> have nothing much to do with socialism in the way Marx saw it. China's
> success in the last 20 years, if you remember, was entirely brought
in by
> following free market policies in the Southern provinces). 
> 
> Why do we care for China? Or for India for that matter? These are
failed
> experiments which are rotting on the sidelines of the world. We must
look
> at the West, Japan, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, even Indonesia.  There
is no
> perfect capitalism and we will have to evolve one of our own, but to
even
> support socialism while advocating the need to reduce corruption, is
very
> strange, if I may be permitted to say. 
> 
> I really don't understand the resistance we have to follow economic
> thinking.  Economist have spent lifetimes carefuly studying the
> institutions that led to the creation of wealth. If engineers are
the best
> judges of the strength of a structural bridge, and doctors are the
best
> judge of a person's health, then economists (not Marxian political
> economists, whose fundamental assumptions of human nature are
completely
> flawed, in that they glorify the good nature of workers) can at
least be
> considered as speaking some sense when they talk of the causes of
economic
> growth ... 
> 
> Sanjeev
> 
> 
> 

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