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Fw: clarification & A Bend in the River.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@almaak.usc.edu>
Subject: clarification

>Sorry about this confusing msg. ........ that this is a well-studied
subject, and this looking up to God as a solution is a "sanity-preserving"
technique. ..........

... So what developed as a sanity preserving technique against excesses has
now worked itself more deeply into people's thinking and goes

 Be as it may, the fact remains that we do have to deal with this type
 of thinking which is quite widespread.***********************

This is a weekend posting on a topic unrelated to anything.
*****************END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE.***********************

>From Vinay,

The things remarked upon by the visiting Indians are indeed the pervasive
feelings of most Indians. This reaction, as has been remarked, is in big
part due to the "sanity-preserving" technique inherent in the psychological
make-up of human beings.

But I do not agree that all hope has been abandoned by the people. Indian
voters are truly "knowledgeable". They know what is good for them and who is
a good man and  who  a hypocrite. Unfortunately, they are unable to Get Rid
of hypocrites once these hypocrites manage to come into power by resorting
to various "electoral frauds".

The comments regarding western ideas and specially Competition and BUSINESS-
MEN are right. Too much COMPETITION  is dehumanizing. This has nothing to do
with Capitalism or Socialism or Communism.

When I visited USA for the first time 20 years ago, after spending my First
day there,
I came to the conclusion, in fact made a pronouncement, to my friends that
Americans would be stupid to want to change their system of Govt. since the
Govt had given them everything that they needed. How the Govt had achieved
this is quite another story which has something to do with the UNACCEPTABLE
face of Capitalism.

I am in the business of  ULTRA - Capitalists, but Capitalism does not have
to invade our hearts and homes. For that matter, I don't know why people go
for  this labelling of systems and Govts. Don't you expect any form of Govt
to provide you with the basic necessities ? ( For the present we will leave
off discussion of whether it is providing this or not. )  Whatever ISM it
is, the man on the street expects Roti, Kapda and a Hut - a Jhopdi - if not
a house, in the name of shelter.

Those of you gentlemen who are too much enamoured of Capitalism ought to
think of  the Crimes  greed makes man commit and greed is a prime component
of capitalism to a greater degree than of any other system for the other
systems lay emphasis on "sharing" while capitalism alone harps on "begger
thy neighbour" competition. Capitalism also strengthens the hands of
Injustice by placing in their arms the power to perpetrate cruelty on others
including war.

Had the Capitalists, foregone the expected gains which they wished to
extract from a defeated Germany in the World War I , there might never have
been a Second W W. But their insistence on having the full pound of flesh,
howsoever justified, eventually gave rise to Hitler and precipitated the
horrors of the Second W W.

So who are the Point-bearers of this Capitalism ? The Business men !

 REF to Context :  from Posting of  SS :.."We have to reform the Business
man" ..
An enlightened Businessman can be a pillar of society. You have all heard or
read about how one Sahukar in the estate of a Rajput Prince, (perhaps Rana
Pratap) emptied all his treasure in the presence of the prince and requested
the Prince to use the money and raise army to oppose the Mughals who were
mounting an invasion. The army marches on its Stomach !

Francis Bacon said that Capital was like Mud, not  much use until Spread.
but our Indian businessmen have been "traitors".

Right now a scandal  is brewing in Delhi over adulterated mustard oil:
scores have died after consuming it, others are ill resulting in loss of
GDP, orphaning of families and other ills which all of you can imagine. Why
because some one wanted to make that little bit extra money which would put
him in front of his Competitor or a simple case of wanting more and more.
How should these things be countered ? Surely, you can not attribute this to
"complicity" of Govt..

The whole of South East Asia is in financial turmoil. One of the hardest hit
is Thailand but the one difference between Thai - businessmen and Indian
businessmen is this : the Thai businessmen "looted" the Govt coffers but
while they were doing this PAID their employees Handsomely. This resulted in
a great surge in consumer demand which in its turn boosted the GDP. How many
employees of the level of brokers of a stock-brokerage company in India make
the equivalent of Rs. 75,000 ? The Thai broker-employees were making that.
Their counterpart in India is paid 3000 to 5000.
Our Indian business wants to get away with the least wage-cost.

The same applies to Govt workers. They are paid a pittance and you Expect
honesty from them and blame them when they accept Bribes. Your Indian
visitors are perfectly right when they say that the Giver of bribes is the
person who should be punished first Because the takers is of course indigent
but what about the giver ?

A point in similar vein has been made by Ms Usha Sriram, who questions
people about taxes paid and custom-duty paid. The truth about it is,
everyone wants to benefit by using foreign-made goods obtained at a less
than (India) market price but do not want to pay full duty to Govt and that
is why they have to Bribe the officer to be allowed to get away with it. The
officers do not demand bribe if you are willing to pay the stipulated duty.

...........RTC (Ref to Context)   SS-Posting   :  "...  paying an MP Rs. 20
lakhs a year .....Nothing is ever going to work. ...    Let us get more of
God.     honest people are not supposed to be in politics!"

This is being a little too pessimistic. As I remarked above, the masses are
waiting for the right person to come along: they do not want to raise their
voice now both for fear of becoming a "marked person" and also "not to tempt
God" who is assumed to be contrary in the present context. But give them the
choice and you will see them coming forward - this happened last time with
Rajiv. Unfortunately, he was too inexperienced to handle other politicians
and all his ideas got watered down before he could achieve much. The true
Rascals in the game are politicians including such figures as V.P.Singh who
"gained" poluparity by rising against Rajiv but showed his true colours when
he implemented Mandal Commission Report, again to gain votes.

..............RCF :  From SS - posting :      "What's wrong with us Indians?
Have we lost our mind?...  Cause is corruption: terrible electoral policies
and socialism? The problem is that we have been supporting a system which
quickly sucks up the bad folk and honors them with top positions. How do you
explain such things to people? Is it going to be impossible to explain these
things to our people, ever? In that case, we might as well wind up this
effort and shut down this "freedom and sense shop."

Vinay :      Why bring in Socialism ? If followers of Mahatma Gandhi commit
a crime, Is Mahatma Gandhi to be blamed for that ? Our lack of applying
equitable measures for distribution of the rewards of national industry is
the reason for our lack of progress - socialism has nothing to do with it.

We have to look within ourselves for the reasons why things have gone wrong.
In Democracy, it is said People get the Government they Deserve. Our Crime
is that
we are ignorant, do not take the trouble to inform ourselves and Support


After all is sad and done (not really, but for the present enough), what is
to be done ? How can things Improve ?

In this I agree with ASH  who wrote the other day that some Active, ad hoc
measures should be taken.

I sincerely feel that TO ACHIEVE OUR ENDS, we have to maintain INTEREST  in
this and get others interested. Just enunciating Policy is not enough. It is
a long term goal. The man in the street NEEDS REDRESS NOW, at least the HOPE
that redress will arrive.

I suggest :

1. Corrupt officials should be exposed thru' newspapers. The subscribers
should address letters in their area-newspapers, write to Lok-ayukta etc.

2. Judges should be consulted as to how the rules governing "School-teacher
cases against Administrative Officers" can be changed and preferably kept
out of the ambit of regular court by adminstrative by-laws.

There could be provision for an Administrative Officer from another region
visiting the offending school-teacher-taught school and making an
"inspection-report" - may be even a Magistrate could pay a visit to the
school for a on-the-spot check and ascertain whether the teacher is carrying
out his duties properly. Anything to cut down the watse of court time and
Govt-money to fight these cases.

3. IMO, expecting young men to go out in the country armed with only high
ideals of a good Policy and set up political organizations is a tall order.
It needs a lot more than that - Brawn Power & money power.



1. Our dear Mr. R.D.Prabhu is planning to teach Physics and Mathematics. Why
not produce CD - based educational material ?

Our good President, Mr. Antony Joseph and Suresh Rajagopalan  as well as a
number of other IT - experts can give help in this. The product should be
marketed the world over as well as in India. The revenues ought to be shared
between Mr. Prabhu, and IPI or someother shareholding organized for this

SS pl. note - in the Capitalist world, Money makes the Mare go. So it is
imperative to adopt such policies.

2. The book-publishing idea of SS is great. It should be done on a
profit-making basis apart from undertaking it as a non-profit activity for

One thing WRT this, all concerned people ought to be paid at a nominal but
FAIR rate. Well, a number of people have occupations in USA but they can not
expect to be paid at that rate but why not pay them at Indian rate ? - they
having the choice of doing things only in their spare time and as a SERVICE
to the cause of helping fellow - "sufferers" in this Capitalist world where
not all can afford the cost of production even if  their work is

3. The other day SS mentioned that Harvard charges $30,000 per annum for
tuition. Harvard also has a HUGE endowment fund which they invest in
securities market. Mosr of our Indian Investors know only how to make losses
but STEADFASTLY  refuse to pay decent remuneration to Specialists (see
comparison bet. Thai & Indian businessmen above ). Rajendra Sethia is still
the biggest officially bankrupt person in the world.

4. No one is going to get rich working for others. (Working in States is
another matter.) But entrepreneurs in India lack Seed capital. Why not start
a Venture Capital Arm that will take equity state in ventures ? Investors
can be Ministers who demand $5 million to sanction projects !

With the Best Regards,

Sa - Yo - Na - Ra.     The full meaning of this Japanese way of saying
Farewell is :

"We do not wish to part, but if it must be so .............".

Vinay Chandekar.

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